RE: Antw: Re: Client does not reflect Server MAP changes

[John Mackney <john.mackney@uk.logical.com>]

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James,

We appreciate that new items are not displayed on the read-only map, but we
used to see status changes resulting in colour changes reflected on the
client map, and now we don't. These status changes are propagated to the
read-only map only when a manual refresh is performed.

We're trying to resist using a number of x-client displays because of the
load this places on the server. The Web version is an option, but In this
version we have to have the read-write map displayed graphically somewhere
in order to start the java display. We could get away with this, and retire
the client - but we prefer the option of a local LAN based client in our
operations centre, and to X off of that. 

Have we found a bug as Michael suggests, or have we a configuration issue?

Your opinion would be appreciated.
John 

John Mackney
Technical Design Authority
Logical eBOC
Logical (UK) Ltd.

Email:      john.mackney@uk.logical.com



 -----Original Message-----
From:   James Shanks [mailto:SHANKS@us.tivoli.com] 
Sent:   09 July 2001 14:43
To:     IBM NetView Discussion
Subject:        Re: Antw: Re: [NV-L] Client does not reflect Server MAP
changes

You need not be sorry, Michael, but if you want this pursued you will have
to get in the boat with us and open a problem to supoort and be prepared to
see it through to resolution.  I have never seen it except where an
external network problem has prevented updates from flowing (NFS problems,
that ort of thing).
I'm afraid all you have given us her is an anecdotal report and we would
need hard data, netstat's, traces, and the like to figure out what is
wrong.
Bu it would not be worth doing on NetView 5.1.

Your specialists's opinion isn't worth much without data, it is just an
opinion.  And I have no idea how to translate his comment about a FIFO pipe
into what happens in the C++ code for the client.  There are tens of
thousands of line and many, many interconnected components.

James Shanks
Team Leader, Level 3 Support
Tivoli NetView for UNIX and NT


"Michael Seibold" <Michael.Seibold@gek.de>@tkg.com on 07/09/2001 07:32:04
AM

Please respond to IBM NetView Discussion <nv-l@tkg.com>

Sent by:  owner-nv-l@tkg.com


To:   <nv-l@tkg.com>
cc:
Subject:  Antw: Re: [NV-L] Client does not reflect Server MAP changes



Hi John (and sorry James),

we once had the same problem (Netview V. 5.x running on AIX 4.3.2 with AIX
4.3.2 - clients) and some external AIX-specialist tried to track it down to
the bit's going through the cable...
He told us that -to his opinion- there is a design problem using (FIFO-?)
Pipes via NFS-mounts within Netview and that this won't work correctly.
Don't know if he was right, but we changed to log in to the Server via
telnet and redirekt the X-Display. Causes a lot of memory-usage on the
server, but it works better. We still have the problem from time to time,
but it's very hard to track it down because for opening a case with support
you have to recreate the scenario, which is almost impossible, since the
fault occurs only about 4-6 times a year in our environment. And as long as
the map stays green we don't have any problems....

Not much of a for help you, sorry. But maybe a hint for some of the
developement/test-crew listening here to talk about during coffee-time...

Michael Seibold
Gmünder Ersatzkasse GEK
Germany

(
oh, by the way, just to prevent questions:

Netview V5.1.3 on AIX 4.3.1, only 1 map, no nfs-clients, 100 MBit LAN /
fully switched environment, so it should be no network problem, X-Servers
Reflection and Hummingbird Exceed, running both on WIn98 and WinNT 4.0,
Suse Linux 7.2, AIX 4.3.2, HP/UX 10.20, always the same problem. The map
(default) displayed with these X-Servers is read-only, since read-write is
opened on the server itself, no errors displayed when running ovtopofix
etc., no problems with full filesystems, no problem with nameservers since
we use local lookup, netview-cache is large enough to hold all objects in
cache, ..... We just stop all displays, then netview with "ovstop nvsecd",
look that all processes are down and all sockets cleared in
/usr/OV/sockets, and then start over with /etc/netnmrc - and the problem
vanishes for a few months...
we learned to get used with this...
)



>>> SHANKS@us.tivoli.com 09.07.2001  13.16 Uhr >>>
If your client is running a read-only map, which means that one is up on
the server or on another client that has it read-write, then you will see
status chnages but not new additions to the map.  This is the limitation of
shared maps and has always been the case.  No new items and no alterations
will take place on a read-only map until it is refreshed, only color
chnages due to changing status.  This included no new interfaces cards and
no new items in a smartset collection.  Sorry to disappoint you but this is
entirely normal.

This is one big reason why many people prefer the web client, since it
continually publishes new copies of the server map all on its own.

James Shanks
Team Leader, Level 3 Support
Tivoli NetView for UNIX and NT


John Mackney <john.mackney@uk.logical.com>@tkg.com on 07/09/2001 05:55:22
AM

Please respond to IBM NetView Discussion <nv-l@tkg.com>

Sent by:  owner-nv-l@tkg.com


To:   "Netview Support list (E-mail)" <nv-l@tkg.com>
cc:
Subject:  [NV-L] Client does not reflect Server MAP changes





We have a NetView server (running on SUN Solaris 2.8) and a NetView client
(AIX 4.3.3). The client has the NetView server databases and conf
directories mounted with NFS.

The client only shows the correct state of the NetView Server MAP when a
manual refresh is performed. Shouldn't the client map update automatically.
When we first installed the client, the maps on the client and the server
stayed in synch. We can't explain why it doesn't happen now. We have
severed the client/server link and joined them up again, but it hasn't
helped.

Any suggestions?

John Mackney

Technical Design Authority

Logical eBOC

Logical (UK) Ltd.

Email:      john.mackney@uk.logical.com





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James,

We appreciate that new items are not displayed on the read-only map, but we used to see status changes resulting in colour changes reflected on the client map, and now we don't. These status changes are propagated to the read-only map only when a manual refresh is performed.

We're trying to resist using a number of x-client displays because of the load this places on the server. The Web version is an option, but In this version we have to have the read-write map displayed graphically somewhere in order to start the java display. We could get away with this, and retire the client - but we prefer the option of a local LAN based client in our operations centre, and to X off of that.

Have we found a bug as Michael suggests, or have we a configuration issue?

Your opinion would be appreciated.
John

John Mackney
Technical Design Authority
Logical eBOC
Logical (UK) Ltd.

Email:      john.mackney@uk.logical.com

 -----Original Message-----
From:   James Shanks [mailto:SHANKS@us.tivoli.com]
Sent:   09 July 2001 14:43
To:     IBM NetView Discussion
Subject:        Re: Antw: Re: [NV-L] Client does not reflect Server MAP changes

You need not be sorry, Michael, but if you want this pursued you will have
to get in the boat with us and open a problem to supoort and be prepared to
see it through to resolution.  I have never seen it except where an
external network problem has prevented updates from flowing (NFS problems,
that ort of thing).
I'm afraid all you have given us her is an anecdotal report and we would
need hard data, netstat's, traces, and the like to figure out what is
wrong.
Bu it would not be worth doing on NetView 5.1.

Your specialists's opinion isn't worth much without data, it is just an
opinion.  And I have no idea how to translate his comment about a FIFO pipe
into what happens in the C++ code for the client.  There are tens of
thousands of line and many, many interconnected components.

James Shanks
Team Leader, Level 3 Support
Tivoli NetView for UNIX and NT

"Michael Seibold" <Michael.Seibold@gek.de>@tkg.com on 07/09/2001 07:32:04
AM

Please respond to IBM NetView Discussion <nv-l@tkg.com>

Sent by:  owner-nv-l@tkg.com

To:   <nv-l@tkg.com>
cc:
Subject:  Antw: Re: [NV-L] Client does not reflect Server MAP changes

Hi John (and sorry James),

we once had the same problem (Netview V. 5.x running on AIX 4.3.2 with AIX
4.3.2 - clients) and some external AIX-specialist tried to track it down to
the bit's going through the cable...
He told us that -to his opinion- there is a design problem using (FIFO-?)
Pipes via NFS-mounts within Netview and that this won't work correctly.
Don't know if he was right, but we changed to log in to the Server via
telnet and redirekt the X-Display. Causes a lot of memory-usage on the
server, but it works better. We still have the problem from time to time,
but it's very hard to track it down because for opening a case with support
you have to recreate the scenario, which is almost impossible, since the
fault occurs only about 4-6 times a year in our environment. And as long as
the map stays green we don't have any problems....

Not much of a for help you, sorry. But maybe a hint for some of the
developement/test-crew listening here to talk about during coffee-time...

Michael Seibold
Gmünder Ersatzkasse GEK
Germany

(
oh, by the way, just to prevent questions:

Netview V5.1.3 on AIX 4.3.1, only 1 map, no nfs-clients, 100 MBit LAN /
fully switched environment, so it should be no network problem, X-Servers
Reflection and Hummingbird Exceed, running both on WIn98 and WinNT 4.0,
Suse Linux 7.2, AIX 4.3.2, HP/UX 10.20, always the same problem. The map
(default) displayed with these X-Servers is read-only, since read-write is
opened on the server itself, no errors displayed when running ovtopofix
etc., no problems with full filesystems, no problem with nameservers since
we use local lookup, netview-cache is large enough to hold all objects in
cache, ..... We just stop all displays, then netview with "ovstop nvsecd",
look that all processes are down and all sockets cleared in
/usr/OV/sockets, and then start over with /etc/netnmrc - and the problem
vanishes for a few months...
we learned to get used with this...
)

>>> SHANKS@us.tivoli.com 09.07.2001  13.16 Uhr >>>
If your client is running a read-only map, which means that one is up on
the server or on another client that has it read-write, then you will see
status chnages but not new additions to the map.  This is the limitation of
shared maps and has always been the case.  No new items and no alterations
will take place on a read-only map until it is refreshed, only color
chnages due to changing status.  This included no new interfaces cards and
no new items in a smartset collection.  Sorry to disappoint you but this is
entirely normal.

This is one big reason why many people prefer the web client, since it
continually publishes new copies of the server map all on its own.

James Shanks
Team Leader, Level 3 Support
Tivoli NetView for UNIX and NT

John Mackney <john.mackney@uk.logical.com>@tkg.com on 07/09/2001 05:55:22
AM

Please respond to IBM NetView Discussion <nv-l@tkg.com>

Sent by:  owner-nv-l@tkg.com

To:   "Netview Support list (E-mail)" <nv-l@tkg.com>
cc:
Subject:  [NV-L] Client does not reflect Server MAP changes

We have a NetView server (running on SUN Solaris 2.8) and a NetView client
(AIX 4.3.3). The client has the NetView server databases and conf
directories mounted with NFS.

The client only shows the correct state of the NetView Server MAP when a
manual refresh is performed. Shouldn't the client map update automatically.
When we first installed the client, the maps on the client and the server
stayed in synch. We can't explain why it doesn't happen now. We have
severed the client/server link and joined them up again, but it hasn't
helped.

Any suggestions?

John Mackney

Technical Design Authority

Logical eBOC

Logical (UK) Ltd.

Email:      john.mackney@uk.logical.com

_________________________________________________________________________
NV-L List information and Archives: http://www.tkg.com/nv-l

_________________________________________________________________________
NV-L List information and Archives: http://www.tkg.com/nv-l

_________________________________________________________________________
NV-L List information and Archives: http://www.tkg.com/nv-l