RE: Managing Private addresses with Netview

[James_Shanks@tivoli.com]

Like Gareth, I don't think this will work because all objects must get
stored in the object database, no matter who discovers them.  And that db
is not hiearchical.  But if you guys want to try it, have at it.

James Shanks
Team Leader, Level 3 Support
 Tivoli NetView for UNIX and NT



"Painter, Bill" <BPainter@GILATFLORIDA.com> on 11/03/2000 11:06:32 AM

Please respond to IBM NetView Discussion <nv-l@tkg.com>

To:   IBM NetView Discussion <nv-l@tkg.com>
cc:    (bcc: James Shanks/Tivoli Systems)
Subject:  RE: [NV-L] Managing Private addresses with Netview




Yes this is the idea,  the question for me is how the object is represented
in the object database.  I think that the objects would have the same IP's
but the parent of the object would be different MLM's  not a problem
there..
I assume that the relationships would be straight from there as it is for
multiple interfaces on a device.  If the mlm reports a node down the node
will go red and the corresponding mlm will go yellow.

Anyone else?

-----Original Message-----
From: Jane Curry [mailto:jane.curry@SKILLS-1ST.CO.UK]
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 10:27 AM
To: IBM NetView Discussion
Subject: Re: [NV-L] Managing Private addresses with Netview


Hi Bill,
I am currently pondering a similar scenario to use MLM to manage devices
beyond a firewall.  Are you suggesting that, for example, your MLM1 will
ping one set of devices  10.1.1.x, MLM2 will ping a different set of
devices
that also use the 10.1.1.x address space...... and that your MLM top-level
icon will then allow you to drill into each MLM which, in turn, will show
the respective 10.1.1.x manged nodes??

If it works, it's a neat idea - my question then would be, what happens
next?  What controls the status of a device inside an MLM submap - info
from
the MLM or NetView's reachability info?  If a node 10.1.1.x goes down, it's
respective MLM will notice and can forward the event to NetView but how
does
NetView know WHICH 10.1.1.x has gone down??  If you want something to
happen
to correct the problem, again how do you tell an operator WHICH 10.1.1.x
has
gone down.  If you want to do SNMP gets/sets, same problem - how do you get
back to the right failing node?


You may be able to customise your MLM so that when it forwards traps it
translates the IP address of the real problem node into a pseudo address
space that NetView recognises but is unique across all your endnode
systems.
This probably nets out at blocking the original trap and forwarding a new
trap to NetView - but that should be doable.  If you then had some sort of
look-up table at NetView you could then translate this pseudo address into
the real and specific 10.1.1.x that the problem originated from.  I've also
mused on using DNS to help this NetView look-up mechanism but never got
around to trying it....


Anyone else been down this route??


Regards, Jane



"Painter, Bill" wrote:




Thanks Martin for the information!


I still would like to know if anyone can see a problem with using the mlm
approach.  If I used public addresses on these devices and ping them I
would
have a root map that consisted only of MLM's  they would in turn "see" the
privately addressed devices and on the network map show up as managed by
the
mlm's.


Anyone have a comment on this?


Thanks,
Bill


-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Walder [ mailto:mw@itmasters.com <mailto:mw@itmasters.com> ]
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 4:13 AM
To: IBM NetView Discussion
Subject: Re: [NV-L] Managing Private addresses with Netview


Bill


Check out the CNAT product at this address:-


  http://www.tivoli.com/products/documents/datasheets/cnat_ds.pdf
<http://www.tivoli.com/products/documents/datasheets/cnat_ds.pdf>


--
Martin Walder
Tivoli Certified Enterprise Consultant


IT Masters (UK) Ltd
Unit 5, CNC House,
Grand Union Office Park,
Packet Boat Lane,
Uxbridge UB8 2GH


Tel:     +44 (0) 1895 909 500
Mobile:  +44 (0) 771 315 8548
Fax:     +44 (0) 1895 909 501
Internet http://www.itmasters.com <http://www.itmasters.com>


"Painter, Bill" wrote:


>
>
> Can Netview  manage a number of duplicate private address by not
> pinging directly but using only Remote pingers or MLM type devices?
>
> If anyone knows of documentation that they could direct me to I would
> appreciate it!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bill Painter
> Sr. Network Administrator
> Gilat-To-Home Latin America, Inc.
> 1560 Sawgrass Corporate Parkway
> Suite # 200
> Sunrise, Fl. 33323
> Phone: 954-331-1024
> Fax: 954-858-1777
> E-Mail: bpainter@gilatflorida.com
>


_________________________________________________________________________
NV-L List information and Archives: http://www.tkg.com/nv-l
<http://www.tkg.com/nv-l>

--
Tivoli Certified Enterprise Consultant & Instructor
Skills 1st Limited, 2 Cedar Chase, Taplow, Bucks, SL6 0EU, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1628 782565
Copyright (c) 2000 Jane Curry <jane.curry@skills-1st.co.uk>.  All rights
reserved.

Yes this is the idea,  the question for me is how the object is represented in the object database.  I think that the objects would have the same IP's but the parent of the object would be different MLM's  not a problem there.. I assume that the relationships would be straight from there as it is for multiple interfaces on a device.  If the mlm reports a node down the node will go red and the corresponding mlm will go yellow.

 

Anyone else?

-----Original Message-----
From: Jane Curry [mailto:jane.curry@SKILLS-1ST.CO.UK]
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 10:27 AM
To: IBM NetView Discussion
Subject: Re: [NV-L] Managing Private addresses with Netview

Hi Bill,
I am currently pondering a similar scenario to use MLM to manage devices beyond a firewall.  Are you suggesting that, for example, your MLM1 will ping one set of devices  10.1.1.x, MLM2 will ping a different set of devices that also use the 10.1.1.x address space...... and that your MLM top-level icon will then allow you to drill into each MLM which, in turn, will show the respective 10.1.1.x manged nodes??

If it works, it's a neat idea - my question then would be, what happens next?  What controls the status of a device inside an MLM submap - info from the MLM or NetView's reachability info?  If a node 10.1.1.x goes down, it's respective MLM will notice and can forward the event to NetView but how does NetView know WHICH 10.1.1.x has gone down??  If you want something to happen to correct the problem, again how do you tell an operator WHICH 10.1.1.x has gone down.  If you want to do SNMP gets/sets, same problem - how do you get back to the right failing node?

You may be able to customise your MLM so that when it forwards traps it translates the IP address of the real problem node into a pseudo address space that NetView recognises but is unique across all your endnode systems.  This probably nets out at blocking the original trap and forwarding a new trap to NetView - but that should be doable.  If you then had some sort of look-up table at NetView you could then translate this pseudo address into the real and specific 10.1.1.x that the problem originated from.  I've also mused on using DNS to help this NetView look-up mechanism but never got around to trying it....

Anyone else been down this route??

Regards, Jane
 

"Painter, Bill" wrote:

 

Thanks Martin for the information!

I still would like to know if anyone can see a problem with using the mlm approach.  If I used public addresses on these devices and ping them I would have a root map that consisted only of MLM's  they would in turn "see" the privately addressed devices and on the network map show up as managed by the mlm's.

Anyone have a comment on this?

Thanks,
Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Walder [mailto:mw@itmasters.com]
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 4:13 AM
To: IBM NetView Discussion
Subject: Re: [NV-L] Managing Private addresses with Netview

Bill

Check out the CNAT product at this address:-

 http://www.tivoli.com/products/documents/datasheets/cnat_ds.pdf

--
Martin Walder
Tivoli Certified Enterprise Consultant

IT Masters (UK) Ltd
Unit 5, CNC House,
Grand Union Office Park,
Packet Boat Lane,
Uxbridge UB8 2GH

Tel:     +44 (0) 1895 909 500
Mobile:  +44 (0) 771 315 8548
Fax:     +44 (0) 1895 909 501
Internet http://www.itmasters.com

"Painter, Bill" wrote:

>
>
> Can Netview  manage a number of duplicate private address by not
> pinging directly but using only Remote pingers or MLM type devices?
>
> If anyone knows of documentation that they could direct me to I would
> appreciate it!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bill Painter
> Sr. Network Administrator
> Gilat-To-Home Latin America, Inc.
> 1560 Sawgrass Corporate Parkway
> Suite # 200
> Sunrise, Fl. 33323
> Phone: 954-331-1024
> Fax: 954-858-1777
> E-Mail: bpainter@gilatflorida.com
>

_________________________________________________________________________
NV-L List information and Archives: http://www.tkg.com/nv-l

--
Tivoli Certified Enterprise Consultant & Instructor
Skills 1st Limited, 2 Cedar Chase, Taplow, Bucks, SL6 0EU, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1628 782565
Copyright (c) 2000 Jane Curry <jane.curry@skills-1st.co.uk>.  All rights reserved.